Star Talk ☆ Let's Hang - All Are Welcome!!

[chobi]

Japan would indeed be a great example. Too much stress, too much strict codes of addressing and such. People break under the pressure and give in to fucked up ways of release... Addiction is effect of this type of environment, not from genes or DNA. Though one may say, we're not supposed to live in such circumstances so our body is somewhat linked within all that, it's still arguable because people can grow up in many different ways in different environments if they can find balance in their life.

[Kyndreth]

One day... I'm gonna read all of it.

[chobi]

I doubt it. The volume's are just gonna keep on increasing and increasing and there'll be more and more and more~ MORE! MORE! MORE~ (Billy Idol reference...)

Anyways It's ok to just read what you like and what you are interested in and if you don't have time for all do not be depressed because we all don't have the time to follow all of our desires... you are not alone Bunny Kyndreth!

[mdom]

Kyndreth needs a tldr

but my dad says it's genes xD because his father was an alcoholic.

[galled]

chobi A reply!

[+] SPOILER

People are born a certain way, but they are not born destined to be addicts. Desire, greed, wrath, lust, envy and all sings are natural to our kind, but in my opinion, it's not genetic structure that makes us want more, it's subconscious illusion that is created based on what you see, hear, smell, taste, interact with in general and the way you perceive the world.

You gave an example of children eating candy or chocolate and how they'll eat themselves until they get sick without stopping. Isn't that chemical reaction based on the sugar in the candy? Sugar rush, the energy, sweetness makes our bodies feel good and our brain to produce hormones that makes us happy? Even more sexually active with certain foods? So while we consume those, we ourselves are under the influence and our bodies want more because the food we eat stimulate production of happiness and so on. This is part of our bodies functions, but it's not the genetic hunger and primal reaction to starvation that would make us eat anything because our body needs it. It's being spoiled is what I'd say.

I'd still say it's genetic. The attraction to sugar, etc., chemical reactions/because our bodies want it, that makes our brains want it. Where did that come from if not genetics? My reasoning is not all creatures on earth want sugar. So if it's not genetic, what causes it? Not all humans were born or live near sugar sources. So it's not environmental and must be genetic, yes?

Evolution states that traits that give us an advantage are more likely to passed along to future generations--and that would be through genes.

Addictions are hard demons to fight and I think that is because people see the demon in the substance rather in their own selves. People try to fight the tools but not the things that pull the trigger. People do drugs and go tragically overboard in their thrust to escape reality and to feel good. Isn't that just imbalanced life deprived of affection or sometimes deprived from challenge? Either left alone and hated by all, or left alone and isolated in our own comfort zone where nothing excites us, isn't that the true cause for all those who push themselves under the influence of drugs, alcohol or other self-destructive tendencies? No purpose, no teachings, no way to live a life in balance. So if we are surrounded by what we needed wouldn't we never turn to those things in the first place?

I know people who've used all sorts of drugs a few times to try them, but never got addicted to them. I've seen some who tried once and ruined their lives because of their internal demons.

I also have reason to suspect that it is human behavior that allows some genes to awaken and others to degrade. Human body is very adaptive and it's the fact that we really do not know how a big part of it works that we fail to destroy it easily sometimes. And when I say easily I mean by abusing it for the most part of our lives.

Agreed, but the genetics are either there or they're not. No one (at least yet, but very soon is my guess) has been able to add genes to humans that did not already exist.

Mmm, here's what I googled about genes; "Genes are composed of DNA, and it is predicted that there are over 3 billion basepairs in the human genome." As far as I understand, most of the DNA in our bodies is inactive and labeled as junk because it does nothing most of the time. But if it activates it would likely start performing some sort of function that would show difference in our behavior or organism. With so much possibilities that we already have in our bodies, do we need to try to add more?

If history is any indicator of the future many, if not all, of these "junk" genes will become known one day. I suspect many are either part of a group sequence (as opposed to a single gene triggering a single trait) or the trait for this single gene is so innocuous it's not obvious yet to our current technology.

Anyway, what I was getting at is we have yet to add traits that do not already exist in the human genome regardless of how it's done.

OK, here's another way to look at it: Which is more likely? Can you have genetic traits to want/need without wide addictions for that thing or can wide addictions exist without the genetic traits to want/need that thing? One relies on the other and one would not exist without the other.

Most of the things that drive us towards greed and lust for power are illusions created by mankind itself.

I have a different perspective. I think the basis for these things to work are already there within us (the genetic disposition), and nearly everyone from advertisers to politicians have learned the skills to manipulate people, all in the pursuit of getting people to do things they want (with helps them obtain the things the perpetrators desire -- money, power, etc..).

Ok, so we have scenes where we'd see others want what they don't have and what they can't have unless they hurt others. You say that because people are genetically conditioned to be greedy, they'd do anything to get it, or something like that.

And then again, we have people who'd sacrifice their own desires, their own possessions just so others would have more? So those people don't have those genes? So what about the people who's parents were greedy fucks who killed and did everything they wanted, but they themselves can't put themselves to do that? If they are born from their parents, they should have the same genes. so how can there be difference in behavior?

In my opinion, the way the masses get manipulated easily is way more complex and I've gained this conclusion by again zooming out to see ourselves as a part of a bigger system where people's behavior influences on everyone. I won't go into too much details, but lets say that it has to do with most of the people do not understanding the consequences of their actions and only looking at small scale of the world they are in, while others look at bigger picture and seeing how they can abuse a the way the masses move so they can harness gain in a natural way, similar to how if we put a wheel on a running river, we can harness the movement into power to use.

Essentially the issue is in both sides, the ones who do not look at greater picture to see how they can be abused and in the ones who abuses the others and it's split between the different sides with different proportions depending on different cases.

This is because one of the wonderful things about humans is our brains are complex enough to hold back animal instincts/genetics/evolutionary programming and choose something other than immediate gratification. Because we can think and reason is why our programming does not completely control all of our actions. I think this is where we differ in opinions.

But yes, some are better at it than others. There are a lot of "broken" people out there who are terrible at it. In the end, we're human and thus imperfect.

If it were not for some quidance when children were being raised, what we call civilization would very quickly deteriorate. LORD OF THE FLIES is a great tale that illustrates this very thing. If people were not raised with the idea that killing and stealing and that doing drugs is all bad stuff, what do you think would happen? I think there'd be a heck of a lot more deaths and shortages. We'd revert to our more animal insticts/genetic/evolutionary programming.

I can achieve great things, but I don't want to. The moment I achieve something that can be labeled as great I would be brought into a shiny spotlight and be shown as part of a person that's placed on (or close to) the top of this big pile of shit I call the world of man.

I do not want to be apart of it. I do not want to be placed on pedestals. I do not need the recognition of the masses so much although I'd appreciate it if I can have a bunch of friends that would recognize my efforts or just appreciate me for who I am.

I very selfishly do what I do and I just want to spent the rest of my life separated from this bullshits.

That's good to hear that you have self confidence. That's a huge hurdle for most.

There are plenty of people today and in the past that have done great things, but have gone unnoticed. I think unless you're looking for fame, it just won't be a big problem. And there are plenty of ways to be anonymous. And I bet there is no shortage of people out there who would be willing to take the credit for your work. The fear of the spotlight or pedastals may be just a little overblown.

I can never understand, and I don't direct this at you, how someone will do nothing, then complain that stuff happens to them when a little bit of effort early on would have solved the problem. Instead they do nothing/ignore it and it becomes a huge problem and they complain. I've seen this in a number of currently young people and my only explanation I can come up with is the idea of delayed satisfaction is lost on them and they can only think about the present. This is another one of those inbred genetic tendencies we see in nature IMHO. It's like an immature mind (like the kids who will eat candy until they're sick). Can you add some insights? I am truly curious.

Thanks!

And here is how it goes:

Exibit A, has his own life, own problems, own issues to deal with and life is overwhelming.
Exibit A, says that the problems of the drowning are problems of the drowning themselves.
Exibit A do not try to do things for people they don't know, try not to do more in their job, do not try to put extra effort in a lot of the things they do.
Exibit A behaves this way, because they want to focus their time and efforts on people they care about and themselves.

This makes their life easier because they do not put other people's misery and problems at heart and they feel better. They'd keep telling this kinda things like this to themselves because that's part of how they detach themselves from their connection to the system (world, life etc.) until they get hurt and they need help.

Well, that explains not wanting to help others, but why not help themselves? That's the part I don't get/am interested in. By not handling the things that need handling until they become problems has the opposite effect of their desires to be detatched because it will require more interaction to fix. It doesn't make sense to me...

There are ofc a lot more reasons for that and here are some of the biggest ones called "Path of least resistance", "The Pareto principle" that is also related to a graph known as "Zipf law". First two links are to Wiki articles and the second is a nice video by Vsauce that talks about all 3 of these things and I recommend it.

OK, I'll have a look.

Thanks!

[Lemon Cheesecake]

You guys should get extra feathers for your lengthy replies!

[galled]

lol!

[chobi]

You guys should get extra feathers for your lengthy replies!

How about, instead of extra feathers give us extra width on the forum posts xD (jokes)

well My post will be coming later today galled cause work that's why :?

[Lemon Cheesecake]

yes, work takes precedence so we can afford to eat and sleep!

[galled]

How about, instead of extra feathers give us extra width on the forum posts xD (jokes)

well My post will be coming later today galled cause work that's why :?

I'll second more space! Lol

No worries. Take your time. Lemon is right. Work before fun stuff!

[mdom]

Yes, you guys deserve like, 20 feathers xD

[dragoness129]

I love hangout threads! So many great ones to stockpile all the feathers from chatting in!

[Lemon Cheesecake]

nice, I love how the green poodle skirt makes the prince jacket look like it is flaring - you guys are so creative !

[dragoness129]

There are so many great, creative avies!

[Polaris]

Thanks guys for not letting my hangout thread die, even as I take unexpected long hiatuses and pop in once in a blue moon (づ-̩̩̩-̩̩̩_-̩̩̩-̩̩̩)づ

Exams are coming up in may and all my teachers have been cramming everything into our oh-so-limited schedules before spring break comes around (which is next week wednesday ahahaha)